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Why We Did Things in V6

Journal Entry: Sun Jul 13, 2008, 4:12 PM
  • Mood: Stunned
While it's fine to dislike the things we've worked very tirelessly on for the past 9-ish months, but at the very least I think people should understand decisions we've made. Here are some complaint topics I've seen and why we did things this way:

:bulletred: Front Page is covered with art
This seemed appropriate to us, considering this is an art site. The front page is the primary entry-point to discovering great new art, and by enlarging the quantity of art seen on the home page we're making sure that once a person submits a new deviation it'll have exposure for a significantly longer period of time than on the previous channels-style home page. The old channels-style home page was nice to look at and was more stream-lined, but it severely cut down on the amount of time a new piece of artwork was noticeable. We felt we had a commitment to our artists to do what we can to show their work off as much as possible, and we felt this new home page was a great way to do it.

:bulletred: More Menu is Confusing
Actually it's not. You just have to customize it to fit your specific interests. We learned that not everybody is into the Chat, and maybe not everybody is into News, etc etc. With the More Menu everybody can decide what their primary nav should look like, thus making their dA experience more personal and enjoyable.

:bulletred: Userbar at the top of the page
We wanted the navigation and especially the search box to be directly connected to the primary content of the site, and the userbar was seriously in the way. So we moved it. We also feel it makes more sense at the very top, since the content within the userbar is tertiary to the rest of the content on any given page.

:bulletred: Colors are too bright
They're not too bright, they're just brighter. It's going to be quite a contrast from the colors of v5, yes, but you'll adjust to it soon enough and probably enjoy them. There is also a methodology to the color usage, but I won't go into all of that.

:bulletred: Message Center looks like gmail, hotmail, yahoo mail, some mail app
We discussed the Message Center a lot and deduced that the messages most people get around here are, in effect, a lot like emails...which are also just messages. There is no difference between comments/replies and email, conceptually speaking. They're all just messages that you either respond to or ignore. We also wanted our Message Center to be familiar to everyone, which is why we took cues from email apps in an effort to make everything more intuitive.

:bulletred: Message Center can only show me a few items at a time
I've been seeing this comment a lot, and it's clear people haven't tried clicking on the left-hand menu at all. All messages are sorted based upon context, to make it easier to find the types of messages you want to respond to. Just click on a left-hand menu item to go to an appropriate section, or click on the "View More" button listed directly underneath any grouping of message types in the "All" area.

:bulletred: Secrets of the Message Center
We haven't built a full tutorial on the tricks we built into the MC, but here are some you might find useful:
- Folders: Create a new folder and drag anything into it. It's that basic.

- Shift-Clicking: Want to select more than one message? You can click on the exterior outline of one, hold Shift on your keyboard, then click on another one further down the line. It'll group them all together, making them easier to drag into a folder or elsewhere.

- Click-Drag: Click somewhere, and drag a selection box onto any messages to manipulate them similar to the shift-clicking I mentioned.

- Fast X-clicking: The (X) button on the top-right of every message is a fantastic thing most people haven't caught on to. A method $spyed likes to use to go through his devwatch is to focus on the top-left thumbnail and just leave his mouse hovered over the associated (X). He clicks through very quickly and can get through hundreds of deviations in just minutes flat.

- Remove all Messages: There is a button on the bottom-right of every grouping of message types. Click there and then click on the appropriate pop-up menu item.

:bulletred: Message Center drops changes
We're going to work on this, actually. You'll notice after you do something in MC, there is a little "saving" box in the top-right corner of the page. It's literally saving your changes. Let it finish before you close Message Center.

:bulletred: V5 was better
Actually it was worse. Ask any of the developers who worked on both V5 and V6, and they'll tell you V6 is built on a far more stable and lighter framework. New and old users have also found it easier to find new artwork, which was part of the point.
Also, there is no way we're presenting an option where people can use either v5 or v6. We've completely rebuilt the database, so v5 is gone and wouldn't even function properly on our new system anyway. Allowing such a thing would block the progress and evolution of this site. Please give v6 a week of frequent use before you decide it's garbage.

:bulletred: Front Page isn't customizable enough
Try digging into a section or category on the home page, and then go someplace else on the site. Go back to the home page and you'll find that it remembers where you were last. Some people prefer to only see certain types of art, which is why we did that. The old Channels area didn't do anything different than this, anyway. There are essentially two primary methods of sorting art: date submitted and popularity. Both the channels page and the new home page use these sorting methods, the only difference being the method by which they're displayed.

:bulletred: Being a Subscriber isn't worth it anymore
We admins have seen many instances of this opinion since v6 launched, and it's understandable. One of the biggest features of being a subscriber in v5 was a message center that included thumbnail previews. We decided to give that feature to everybody because it directly benefits the art. What I mean is, being able to see thumbnails means you'll be more likely to click on artwork or simply react to it in a way you otherwise wouldn't if the thumbs weren't there. Our modus-operandi for v6 is to give the community what they need (subscriber or not) to view artwork in the best way possible. That meant giving this particular feature to everybody. However, we have a huuuge list of new subscriber features we're planning, and I promise being a subscriber will be more enticing than ever before.

:bulletred: The site is slow
Yes, it's been a bit slow these last few days, but for a reason. Our system is importing and formatting billions (with a b) of messages into the v6 Message Center. That means things are running at full capacity. I don't know when it'll be done, but when it is there should be a speed boost.
You might also be assuming the site is running slowly on the home page, but in actuality the site simply loads more thumbnails than previously. With v5 you'd see an average of 20 thumbnails on the home page, whereas with v6 you're sure to see more than that.

:bulletred: What about (insert seemingly ignored page/feature here)?
Sleek, aka v6 was our #1 priority over the past 9 months. The reason is because it would provide a much more stable and functional base upon which we could implement new features and rebuild existing ones. Things like the Friends system, Groups, etc etc are going to be worked on harder than ever before, because deviantART as a company is more efficient and focused than ever before. We're also planning ahead better than ever before, too. The More menu is a great example of this future planning: it's a navigational structure with a sort of "app buffet" that we can put new apps into. In other words, we can build new things and toss them in there on the fly. Anyone tried using the Wallpaper app, for example?

:bulletred: I can only see 3 icons on my nav
This is something we're still sorting out. If you've got a 1024 screen resolution, your nav is only built to show 3 icons at once. We're considering other options to expand the amount you can see at any given time, but until we get it perfected please consider removing any elements from your nav that are repeated in the userbar drop-down menu (that arrow next to your username). There is intentional redundancy there so profile-specific options are always accessible.

:bulletred: Not enough contrast/color-blind people have issues
We've been aware of this for a little while, and we have some plans to adjust colors down the road slightly to help those without typical eyesight. We're still discussing exactly how to modify colors, though. We released v6 despite these issues simply because it's important to get the majority of our community using this new version successfully.

:bulletred: V6 doesn't work in my older version of IE
We did a lot of cross-browser testing to ensure v6 was accessible to everyone, but the reality is that IE is really poor when it comes to support for common web technologies. This is especially true with older versions of IE (6, and below). I've seen some people reporting that Message Center completely doesn't work, and this is likely because of our drag-and-drop technology (although I'm still conferring w/ our developers on this). One option is to built an alternate version of Message Center sans technologies IE doesn't support, but this isn't a very desirable option considering more and more of our users have switched over to more updated versions of IE or Firefox.

:bulletred: Nothing makes sense anymore
We did a bit of focus-group testing with non-members of the site as we were building this, and we also released it to our Beta Testers months before we released it publicly. Beta Testers were especially useful, as they made a commitment to using the new version for a considerable amount of time. The result was that they made a ton of suggestions, reported a ton of bugs, but overwhelmingly found everything easier to use. Ask any beta tester, and you'll likely find that they wouldn't dream of going back to v5. Also please consider that all of the people who built this new version used it. When things didn't make sense to us, we fixed it. That said, this is still a work in progress, so more changes and modifications are likely to come.

:bulletred: Notes doesn't look different. All you did was change the colors.
The notes system has always worked well, so we didn't feel it needed to be updated as crucially as the main Message Center did. This doesn't mean we've neglected it, though. In fact, we already have the design for it done. We simply wanted to update the Message Center first, since it's used far more frequently than notes are. Give us some time and we'll update notes.

:bulletblue: One last thing to consider!
You probably aren't aware of this, but the implementation of v6 has actually cost us money. Despite what you may want to believe, this site has to make money in order to keep running. One of the ways we make money is through advertising, even though as a designer I loathe it because it invades otherwise beautiful layouts. Anyway, we've taken a hit on the amount of advertising that can run through this site because of the new Dynamic Browsing functionality on the home page. Long story short, we decided to make less money simply so our community could have a better browsing experience. I'm not going to get sentimental, here, but how many sites do you know that would willingly and knowingly reduce the money they make just so their members could more fully enjoy their site? Myspace just went through a redesign, and all the redesign did was maximize advertising space at the expense of its users. We could do that too, but we won't. We exist to support art, and anything that gets in the way of that has to die.

I'll keep working on this as I see different complaints, but as of right now this covers everything I've seen...in terms of logical complaints, at least.


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Devious Comments

love 8 8 joy 2 2 wow 0 0 mad 0 0 sad 0 0 fear 0 0 neutral 0 0
:iconmacabrexheart:
It's really not a bad layout...it'll just take some getting used to is all.

--
The difference between ignorance and apathy? I don't know, and I couldn't care less.
:iconmindfuckx:
this should be a hot topic :)

( aka. a notice )

--
Creative Staff
deviantART, Inc.
:iconguruubii:
I love it :3
Its fantastically simple and way easier to get through more messages :3

--
Gurukitty.com | Zune | Experimental Guru Blog | Guru's Art Blog
:iconseverinasnape:
I think v6 is just great. Everyone who worked on this is to be congratulated for a job well done! I think its a huge leap from v5 - dA has gotten progressively better in many respects with every new release.

--
"You can tell a trailblazer by the number of arrows in her back." - Me
"Please fix your own lie before you start attacking mine. Thank you very much." (Matt Nathanson)
:iconmatthew-walk:
I don't know who's complaining and why those are even valid complaints. I love it and I thank the staffe for all the hard work. Must suck to do something great and not have it appreciated.
:iconduhcoolies:
Am loving v6 :D

--
You laugh because I'm different... I laugh cause I just farted! :bucktooth:
---
www.duhcoolies.com | designersCOUCH
:iconliquisoft:
The reality is that everything we do gets negative feedback from a comparatively small grouping of people. We know it's going to happen no matter what we do.

--
Creative Director, deviantART
:icongartdesign:
You have all done a fantastic job on v6! I have been using it since the beta came out and I have loved every day of using it!

I was pleasantly suprised by the message center. It is certainly an improvement. 'Tis a shame I don't get enough messages to appreciate its full power.

I'm sure people will just get used to the version eventually!

Thanks for all the hard work you've put into dA!

PS. What language is the dA backend written in?
:iconkuschelirmel:
strange how some people do catch on without needing everything spelled out while others prefer to complain before trying anything - but as you said in another reply, that's just the way things are around here. I hope everyone who had anything to do with the development of v6 isn't going to let those *beep* get the upper hand because seriously, you did a wonderful job!

of course it'll take some getting used to, but that's a "human problem", not one with the interface itself.

and on top of that, I remember the launch of v5 all too well and oh boy v6 was soooooo much sweeter I can't even remotely put it into words :B

--
Love is patient...and kind; Love is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs...It always protects, always hopes, always perseveres.

Avatar by ~Ros-s
:iconspinegrinder:
of course it'll take some getting used to, but that's a "human problem", not one with the interface itself.

You nailed. Nobody's ever complaining or admitting that some users may be flawed. It's always the site. :giggle:

--
Ollie
Prints Quality Control Supervisor
deviantART, Inc.
Prints, T-Shirts & Gear | Prints Help

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What's most important in a design? 

22%
42 deviants said Usability
19%
36 deviants said Message
18%
35 deviants said Balance
16%
31 deviants said Style
6%
12 deviants said Legibility
6%
11 deviants said Color
5%
10 deviants said Subject
4%
8 deviants said Shape
3%
5 deviants said Appropriateness
1%
2 deviants said Scale

Journal History

Typographer's Toolbox

This is a little resource for anybody interested in graphic design. Here, I will expel my knowledge in a very basic manner. Previous versions of the Toolbox have been quite wordy, so I'm going to try to cut down and get straight to the point.



Typeface Use

Use one typeface per design. If absolutely necessary, use 2. However, make sure each has a specific purpose. One might be for important information, the other might be for body copy.



Lorem Ipsum

Lorem Ipsum is dummy copy. It's filler just to see how a paragraph of type will look on a design. Check out [link] for a Lorem Ipsum Generator.



Design Software

The following is a list of design software and what it should be used for:


:bulletgreen:Adobe Illustrator.

Use this for single-page layouts, logo design, illustration, typesetting. Do not use Illustrator for editing photographs, making website layouts, or making multiple-page designs. It gets a bit laggy when setting a big block of text, so use InDesign for the larger jobs.


:bulletgreen:Adobe Photoshop

Use this for editing photography, drawing photographic imagery, and designing web-page layouts. Do not use Photoshop for typesetting, making document layouts, or multiple-page designs.


:bulletgreen:Adobe InDesign

Use this for multiple page layout design. It can also be used for typesetting, but it does not have as many drawing capabilities as Illustrator. It's really best when you have a lot of text to set. Do not use InDesign for editing photographs or making websites.


:bulletgreen:Macromedia Flash

This is ONLY good for animation/interfaces. It is functional as a website design program, but it requires a lot of additional coding knowledge that many creative people do not have. Do not use Flash for any print work at all. It is only good for web use.


:bulletgreen:Macromedia Freehand

This program is comparable to Adobe Illustrator. It doesn't work exactly the same, but it can do a lot of the same illustration things. If you're comfortable with Freehand, by all means use it as you would Illustrator. However, be aware that it is not compatible with any Adobe programs, and is likely to be discontinued because of the recent acquisition of Macromedia by Adobe.


:bulletgreen:Macromedia Dreamweaver

This is what I use for website compilation. I don't actually design the website here. Instead, I drag and drop elements and do some code editing. It's simple and fast, but not entirely necessary if you can write code by hand. It is also known for being a poor WYSIWYG, in that what it shows you is not always exactly how it'll look in a web browser.


:bulletgreen:Quark Xpress

Do not use Quark for anything. Some people are happy with Quark, but I am wary to trust them. Quark is comparable to InDesign in many ways, but its usability is very low and it is not at all intuitive. All good printers have switched over to InDesign, so there is absolutely no reason to continue using Quark unless you're stuck in the stone age. Okay, that may have been harsh, but Quark has become dramatically surpassed by InDesign in every way. There's no reason to keep using a sub-par program.


:bulletgreen:Final Cut Pro

This is for film/video editing. I prefer this program to After Effects, but the downside is that Final Cut Pro is only for Mac computers. Final Cut is the industry standard for film editing.


:bulletgreen:Adobe After Effects

Comparable to Final Cut Pro, but a little more confusing. The interface is similar to most familiar Adobe interfaces, but it doesn't functional as well as it should and runs a little slower than I'd like. Still, it can do most everything Final Cut can.



Typesetting

Setting type is an important skill. So is spelling. When setting type, give it at least 5pt of tracking, and it's usually a good idea to give it good leading. Make the leading equal or 2pts higher than the size of the type, and you should be fine. Also, be sure to kern by hand. Kerning is adjusting the spacing in between individual letters, while tracking is the spacing in between all of the letters as a whole. Computers cannot kern well by themselves just yet, so it is up to designers to know how to do it.



Printing

Finding a good print source is important for any designer. Most offset printers are crap, so here are some things to look for:


1. Do they care about your project? If they treat your project like a hassle, don't give them your business.


2. Do they print using PMS (pantone) colors? A good printer will. This is also referred to as offset printing. A good offset printer will use Heidleberg printers.


3. Are they willing to work with you on the price? Good printers can give you discounts if you ask. They might not be huge, but every bit helps.


4. Nearby Location. It's a good idea to find a printer close to you. Don't use internet-based printing companies unless their printing locations is nearby. Why does this matter? You need to be able to go on press checks, and by living nearby you'll also save on shipping costs. If you can pick the work up yourself, why bother shipping?


5. Do they allow and encourage press checks? A press check is when you, the designer, visit the printer to see the status of your print run. Check to make sure the color is accurate, and there is no blurring or smudging. If your project is worth a lot of money, most printers will treat you to lunch as well.


6. Do they support InDesign? Most all reputable printers have switched from Quark to InDesign, but there are still a handful that don't yet support it. Don't bother using a company that doesn't support InDesign, as they are clearly outdated.



Two good printers in the Los Angeles area:

Typecraft - These guys print all of the stuff for AIGA. They're expensive, but they're damn good.

Digital Room - A small print house. They mostly say they do 4-color printing, but they can also do PMS. Prices are cheap, but they can be a bit of a hassle to work with. They require a credit card to begin work, and rarely return calls on time. You really get what you pay for, in terms of service.



Logo Design

A good logo is unique, looks good, is appropriate, and is very graphic.

So, to elaborate, the logo should not look like any other logo. It should be pleasing to look at. It should fit with the company it's supposed to be for. It should be able to scale up and down and still look the same (you shouldn't lose lines or shapes at small sizes).



Logo vs. Logotype

A lot of idiots have argued with me on this. A logo is an all-inclusive term used to refer to any symbol used to represent something. A logotype is a logo made out of type.

If you want to get more technical, a mark is the symbol portion of an identity. A logotype is the lettering portion. A signature is the entire identity system as a whole.



Be Simple

Keep your message simple. Don't overcomplicate the idea you're trying to convey. If your design looks good, but is conceptually weak, then you've failed in design. Design isn't supposed to just look good, it's supposed to give people a message quickly and clearly. This is why graphic design is referred to as a communication art.



Soliciting Work

If you know of a company that needs a new logo, don't go out of your way to tell them how crappy their logo is. Instead, have a meeting with the owner of the company. Talk to him about how you have some idea that could improve his business. Let him know how a new or appropriate identity could attract more people and make him look more professional. Do not hand him your design. Even if you don't want money, it's good to get in the habit of getting paid for your work. If he owns a restaurant, he can pay you in food. If he owns a car wash, he can give you some free car washes. Your design is valuable, so don't short-change yourself.



Should You Be a Graphic Designer?

Not all artists are graphic designers, but all graphic designers are artists.

Just because you can draw well does not mean you have the knack for design. A good graphic designer looks at intricate details, and understands that everything has meaning. A good designer also has the ability to see things through the non-designer's eye. If you've always had a preoccupation with colors and shapes, see if graphic design is something you might be interested in.

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